@Calli Arcale Sorry but SM and RTD are executive Producers and not producers like the others you have named. It is not the same thing. The producers of Doctor Who are a different thing. An executive producer is typically a producer who is sometimes involved in creative or technical aspects of production, in other words Lead Writers.

Callie, I sort of get what you’re saying, but the reality is, not all Doctor Who is good Doctor Who. If that were true the show wouldn’t have been canceled the first time.

I did a bit of reading up on the sixth doctor ie, the other Baker and I was surprised that not only did he get sacked, apparently there had been an eighteen month haitus period during his run. Fans were in an uproar over his portrayal of their beloved character. I believe he was unfairly judged to be the problem when in reality he worked with the little they gave him. But it makes the point that not everyone will settle for less than they feel they deserve and be happy.

Sure Doctor Who has existed in some form or another for almost fifty years now. And most of those years have been great ones but like before the distant sound of the doctor’s cloister bell can be heard warning us of infinate danger yet again due to the fact that the show is not being held to the standard of excellence it began with.

We already have shortened seasons that are being delayed, many justifiable complaints about the finished product, and sadly, the feeling that in the end it will be the fans who’ll suffer when we lose our beloved show again!

Grace — I know people who would consider it fighting words that Doctor Who was cancelled because it wasn’t good Who at the time. ;-) And have you seen season 26? It was a short season, saddled with a really lousy timeslot, but they made some really interesting stories which remain popular. “Ghost Light”, the last one filmed, is one I keep watching because it has so many layers to it; I get a different experience every time. It also has a gothic feel which gives me a lovely Hinchcliffe/Holmes nostalgia.

You actually illustrate my point perfectly — there will always be people unhappy with something about Doctor Who. You can’t please everyone all the time. So the fact that some don’t like Steven Moffatt or Matt Smith doesn’t really tell us anything, because there is someone complaining like that all the time. People were complaining about how awful things had gotten even during “City of Death”, which got the highest ratings of the entire history of the program. I’ve got a book of old Doctor Who fanzine essays. You should read the ones ranting about how awful “The Deadly Assasin” was. It’s now widely considered essential viewing, and it appalled a lot of fans at the time. (Among other things, it introduced the 13 regeneration limit.)

How could the BBC cancel Doctor Who right now? There is no comptroller trying to put it into an unfavorable timeslot so it can fade away. Rather, it has become one of their biggest worldwide brands. Yes, people will complain, and yes, they will feel their complaints are justifiable. That doesn’t mean nobody else likes it. You didn’t like Season Six. That’s fine. But please, don’t assume everyone else has the same opinion. I liked Season Six. I wish the finale had been a two-parter, and I don’t think the midseason split experiment was successful, but it wasn’t a bad idea, a priori. It was worth trying it, I think. And the BBC will have different measures of success than a fan will; after all, cost doesn’t affect me, but it certainly does them. I like it when a show is brave enough to experiment, even if, inevitably, not all of the experiments will succeed. But what would you rather have — a consistent level of mediocrity, or innovation and flashes of genius with the occasional dud?

@Steve

Steve — of course the roles are different, but that was sort of my point. It used to be there was a producer and a script editor who, between them, helmed the show. Now it’s an executive producer who basically covers both roles. This is not necessarily a bad thing; just different.

@Grace Well said. There was an 18 month hiatus during Colin B’s era. Unfortunately he was sacked and for all the wrong reasons. The costume should never have been allowed, production standards lapsed and the dialogue would have baffled even Stephen Hawkins. Fortunately, his Big Finish run as the Doctor is incredible.
I agree with you about the show not being held to the standard of excellence it began with. Unfortunately after the last year and the run of the mill Xmas Special, I can only thank, whoever it was at the BBC who sign the contract for Big Finish, that they have great production values and great stories. With Tom Baker’s return just launched at Big Finish and Colin Baker in the main range, it is a great time for BF fans.

@Grace
The funny thing is, when it was cancelled in 1989, the show was in rude health, better than it had been in probably a decade. McCoy’s last two series had some fantastic classics; Like Curse Of Fenric, or Remembrance Of the Daleks, or Ghostlight.

Also, I get that you’re obviously not as happy as you’d like to be with the show at the moment, but many others are. For me, of course it could be better, and there are too many stories that are a bit poor, or merely passable, but then I have to say I felt that way under RTD, too.

@TWWL

I think one of my many points about the final years of the classic Who was that because it had become so dreadful so few people were watching it. At the height of it’s popularity Doctor Who was at 16 million and by the time the episodes you mentioned were broadcast only 4 million people were still watching it.

I’m saying if it happened before it can happen again. We can end up losing our show if we don’t get the numbers we need to sustain it! And without more effort being put into Doctor Who that’s what’s going to happen.

And obviously I’m not a lone gunmen in discussing my disappointment, I’m simply the most vocal (smile).

That being said, I’m hoping for a better season to come; same as every one else. (And if RTD has some steller ideas he doesn’t mind sharing I hope someone is wise enough to listen to them!)

Grace and TWWL, hope you don’t mind me interloping here. It also needs to be taken into consideration that back in 1989, the BBC itself pretty much hated “Doctor Who”. It did no adverts for it and put in less and less money for it’s production every year. The BBC of the time could hardly be bothered to acknowledge the show’s existence, caring neither if the show was “terrible” nor if it was “terrific”.

The BBC (of the time) also forced it’s producer, John Nathan-Turner, to remain in that position for the last couple of years even though he wanted to move on. They told him that if he didn’t stay with the show (he had pretty much burned out on it by that point) then the show would be canceled as they would not replace him. He stayed mainly because he didn’t want to let the fans down.

The head guy at the BBC back then, Michael Grade, made it clear that he despised the show and wanted it off the BBC, regardless of the fact that even with less money, it’s last couple of series had been seen as having been big improvements on the previous few years.

The BBC couldn’t be bothered to recognize the improvements in the show and the “positive talk” it was generating. Also, the BBC continued to schedule it against impossible competition. (The stellar “Coronation Street” if I’m remembering correctly.)

It should also be noted that the BBC never actually officially canceled “Doctor Who”. It had simply “ceased production for the time being”, was along the lines of the official word on the matter. They wanted DW to go away quietly, and it sort of did – from TV anyway.

Concerning Colin Baker: Fans had originally been put off by the way in which the Doctor was portrayed in the first 6th Doctor story, “Twin Dilemma”. The Doctor, affected by his regeneration, is seen strangling his companion, Peri, in the episode. Then, in the following number of episodes, the Doctor and Peri have a horrible relationship in which they kept snipping at each other. That all changed after the 18 month hiatus when the show returned with “Trial of a Time Lord”. The Doctor and Peri were now friendly towards one another and the Doctor himself was softer yet more heroic. Unfortunately, he was still wearing the awful clown suit. I myself think Colin Baker is a fantastic actor and did great with what he was given.

As for current DW, I’m having fun with it. I enjoyed this last Christmas episode. No, it wasn’t “classic” DW. But it wasn’t “Evolution of the Daleks” either! (Of course, some enjoyed EOTD. Good for them.) I thought “Girl Who Waited” was the best episode of the last series. “Night Terrors” I thought was a lesser story. “The Doctor’s Wife” I though was good, but I didn’t drool all over it like many fans did. I am upset with the lack of answers to questions put forward during the 5th series, and I’m fearful that they’ll never be addressed. There are some negative tings going on right now with DW, certainly. However, I myself think that the great, positive stuff that’s going on with the show right now very much outweighs the negative.

@Grace
Sure, there will be people who don’t like it, but obviously there’s many that do, too.

@Professor Zed
Hi Zed, I’d actually put a lot of your post up myself, about Who in the 80s, then the site wouldn’t upload it and I couldn’t be bothered Typing it all back out again! Yes, the BBC disliked Who and wanted rid. They tried once, and managed to actually do it for a long time a few years later. Now, they cherish it.

Sorry TWWL

I wish I could believe that. We have no Torchwood and a delayed Doctor Who…if this is cherishing then I’d hate to be victims of their disdain.

@Grace
Doctor Who isn’t delayed,the people making it just decided they wanted it to broadcast in Autumn/winter from now on, instead of the Summer. Have to say, that feels more right to me.

@TWWL
but that means we’ve had the series 7 christmas special; series 7 will air in autumn/winter then it will have the series 8 christmas special then back to series 7 once that has ended be back to series 8 which is confusing.

And…adding to my previous thought…Doctor Who Confidential? Or is the cancelation of this show another example of BBC’s undying respect?

@Grace
To be fair, that show was a lovely treat that didn’t need to exist in the first place, but it did, and for several years. I was slightly surprised it went on as long as it did. Not many other shows get a making of series running alongside the series for six or seven years. In fact, do any? Confidential will be missed by many, and I’ve certainly enjoyed it, but it was always a treat, not something the BBC HAD to give us.

@TWWL

You don’t work for BBC do you do…I’ve not seen anyone support them as well as you do (wink, wink)?

I feel like if I also remind you that every year SJA also had to fight to stay on the air I’ll be given a good reason for that too so I’m cutting my losses and smiling.

Besides I believe the real problem is that since we have no actual Who to look forward to at the moment we’re forced to beat on this dead horse and occasionally each other…
But only in fun!

Okay Whoviannet…give us some juicy topics to hold us over with!

@Patrick

Doctor Who running in the fall — it’s probably worth reminding folks that this isn’t exactly an unprecedented schedule for Who, starting a season in the fall. In fact, it’s the *original* arrangement. Doctor Who first aired on November 23, 1963, after all….