But it’s not like the limit of 13 was just an off the cuff remark. It was an important plot point in both MAWDRYN UNDEAD and TRIAL OF A TIME LORD. That’s why it stuck in people’s heads: it’s important. This is my greatest frustration with Davies. It’s all in flux to him. He played fast and loose with the “rules” constantly. Yes, WHO is loaded with continuity errors (multiple explanations for Atlantis and the Loch Ness Monster). But now that the show’s a bona fide phenomenon, of course people are going to call out these kinds of things more often. It’s been bugging the hell out of me that Sylvester McCoy said the Doctor was 953 in TIME AND THE RANI but Matt Smith’s Doctor just said the Doctor was only 907. Why have such a rich mythology if you’re going to pick and choose what you adhere to?

I knew this line was coming up, having watched the rumour-mills along with WhovianNet, but I was unfortunately out this afternoon. I set the recorder and before watching found this post. Understandably, I was expecting a momentous announcement when I finally got to the momentous line.

I could barely hear it!

Now look. I didn’t mind the rounding down of the Doctor’s age. That’s quite easily explained away by saying that if you were over 900, you’d probably be a little shaky on the details too. Plus, giving up ten years of your life with a breath (2.05) and time travel itself must throw the whole aging thing off a little. But the number of regenerations? How much more important can you get? For the Doctor himself, as well as fandom.

I can deal with the new limit being 507, if that’s what it is. What I was a little miffed about was it being a throwaway line in the Sarah Jane Adventures, with no explanation whatsoever.

I’m sorry to rant. Normally, I don’t. But this is the first time I’ve felt canon to be disrespecting canon. I’m sorry, Mr Davies. And I hope that the forthcoming episodes of DW can bring me round.

i welcome it…doctor who can continue forever!! whats wrong with that…it is a different show now to what it was and certain things will have to change!!

Thing is: RTD’s the one who made up a new limit, not Steven Moffat (who obviously has some plan in his head when they reach #13). Unless Steven, Piers and Beth confirm the new limit is 507, then it’ll remain as 12.

Yes, it seems too large (and too random) a number, but you could explain it away with the the fact that Clyde was bombarding him with questions, he was busy, and the Doctor just said the first number that came into his head…

507. 5+0+7= 12.
Good ol’ RTD.

Um I’m confused, I thought The Doctor said 507 when Clive asked him, not 13. Where did 13 appear from? :-S

@Louis- Clever
@Bobin- In some other episodes other people said 13, but when Clyde asked him he said 507- everyone is confused

Oh right, get it now. But we’re all honestly saying that the Doctor hadn’t regenerated before the show started in 1963 with William Hartnal? Matt Smith may be #11 of TV but what about the Doctor’s actual ‘past’? He might be #14.

I personally don’t feel comfortable with the original limit. I can understand why die-hard Doctor Who fans would want the very small limit to stand, but that would mean we’re looking at four different options, none appealing.

1) Doctor Who ending forever when the Doctor finally dies

2) Doctor Who: The Extended Adventures, where the Doctors are recast and attempt to tell new stories, despite the actors being completely different. (This is just a theory, nothing real)

3) Similar to 2), they end Doctor Who and then relaunch the series, going right back to the 1st Doctor and rewriting the whole of the Doctor Who history

4) The final Doctor does tons of series because he can’t regenerate

I don’t know what they’re gonna do, I wouldn’t want to be in their shoes, put it that way.

@JC
Me neither. I think they do need to find a way round the 13 limit (and seriously – what were they thinking when they set that limit?), I just wish they’d done it in DW proper, rather than in SJA.

Actually, are we considering this the fundemental truth of the matter? Because it could just have been an offhand line to fob Clyde off.

I had the same thought, you know, that it could just have been a sarcastic and exagerated off-the-cuff remark

It was inevitable that, for Doctor Who to continue to be a viable franchise for years to come, the elephant in the room of the 12 regeneration limit had to go.

It’s alluded to in The End Of Time that Time Lords and Daleks alike are in a state of constantly dying and being re-born.

If the Time Lords were going to fight a war of the nature of the Time War, wouldn’t they seek any advantage – even getting rid of the accepted regeneration limit – to win it.

Ultimately though it comes down to this, Doctor Who is simply a TV programme and it’s only us fans who get our collective knickers/boxer shorts/Tom Baker y-fronts in a twist when something is introduced which interferes with the holy writ that is “continuity” (insert shudder here).

If the scrapping of the regeneration limit means more Doctor Who after the Thirteenth incarnation is ready to hand over the TARDIS key, then I’m all for it.

Can I just point out that the limit was actually stated to be 12, not 13. The 13 came into the picture when the Master regenerated, because that was seen as a new limit.

And even if the limit is 12, I bet the Doctor’s going to fall into a vat of replenishing goo or something… That would be like him…

@ScottieDoctor

12 regenerations , 13 lives/incarnations

it was an off the cuff sarcastic remark, I think, Matt’s doctor seems to me to be a very subtle man, emotionally (which is a good thing after the heart-wrenching emotional angst of his predecessor) HOWEVER, I agree with those who have said the regeneration-limit ALWAYS seemed to be something imposed upon the timelord by the high council (look at how they gave the Master more lives how many times? at least twice unless I grossly misunderstand something) rather than an actual biological limit, bearing in mind the High Council exploded along with the rest of Gallifrey, it makes sense (to me at least) that the Doctor would be able to regenerate until he literally wears his biology out.

I’d also like to ask about the weird half-regeneration, couldn’t that make 10.2 (or whatever the timelord version of ten post JE) actually be 11, which would make Matt AT LEAST 12 (I’m thinking 13 myself because Handy!Doc (the human version trapped with Rose) would be 12 as he came after (Also I REALLY like the idea of Handy!Doc as the Valeyard since being stuck would drive a timelord mad and he could technically be the penultimate incarnation, not to mention David Tennant would make as brilliant bad guy!)

@Merry
I don’t think 10.2 was really an 11, because he didn’t actually complete the process. I think the whole thing has to be complete (aka, the body chnage must happen) for it to be considered a new regeneration. Therefore Handy!Doctor is just an offshoot, a by-product (I feel mean, calling him that!) and 10.2 was just a continuation of 10, albeit one that had gone through severe physical trauma.

I think.

So, arguments for the 13 limit being imposed by the High Council, and arguments for it being a biological imperative?

@TSG

I think Moffat could get round it some how.

In Trail of the Timelord the master says that his evil incaration will come between his Twelfth and Thirteenth
incartion

So that would make 14 incarations.

So Moffat could write have a story-line arc where the good and evil incaration battle it out.

The good incartion wins and merges with his evil self and a Fiftheenth body is created.

It was just the first number that came into the Doctors head. Probably.
Anyway, there’s loads of contradictions in Doctor who, it’s just that this is a little more major. (Like the sonic screwdriver has been used on wood…)
Its not as if the BBC are going to stick to keeping the contradictions out and let the Doctor die…. As if.

@Robert
That actually be already be happening. I mean, starting to set it up ready. We all saw Amy’s choice and the shifty dark side of the Doctor look at the end, and it could be the dark side of the doctor taking control of the TARDIS in the whole “silence will fall” thing, but its a little to obvious for a story arc… Just a little…